tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post8871369754137607342..comments2023-07-18T03:44:33.021-07:00Comments on The Bit Maelstrom: I Feel It In My Fingers, I Feel It In My Toesblakehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-27382763015324108932009-03-21T11:38:00.000-07:002009-03-21T11:38:00.000-07:00Well I don't think any of us are denying that gold...Well I don't think any of us are denying that goldiggers exist. Any episode of "The Real Wives of _________" will prove that.<BR/><BR/>It's the implication that goldigging motivations apply to every relationship; if not often, then <I>inevitably,</I> at some point or another. <BR/><BR/>I never had sex in exchange for loot. I never dated a guy who acted like he expected it. Do I know of people who behave this way? Sure. <BR/><BR/>But saying that <I>most</I> or all relationships function this way is just wrong. In both senses of the word.knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231876226573540476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-17241207154537855942009-03-21T05:53:00.000-07:002009-03-21T05:53:00.000-07:00I can be on both sides of this fence.When I was yo...I can be on both sides of this fence.<BR/><BR/>When I was younger I ran with a crowd where a kind word to a women would get you nowhere; and a kind word and a cigarette would get you everywhere, anytime.<BR/><BR/>I changed crowds, and met my wife.<BR/><BR/>On the <I>all women are whores</I> debate:<BR/><BR/>What would it take to disprove this? When all women are making the money, buying the presents for AND still giving sex to the man?<BR/><BR/>I think you need to break this down along age lines. When a man is 13-30 all he wants from a relationship is sex. From 30 to 60 sex is the bonus from the relationship, and from 60 on sex is nostalgic, and the relationship is boss. These ages are approximate, and your mileage may vary. Women may have similar drive changes, but I am smart enough not to generalize about something I don’t know anything about.<BR/><BR/>Hell, you can even see the change on the single guys. Why did I quit running with one crowd and start running with another? I was tired of cheap sex and wanted a relationship. There are also men who will marry the whore, because they never want a relationship; just the sex, and trade whores when the attraction of the sex wears off or one of the parties wants a relationship and the other does not.<BR/><BR/>Do the golddiggers exist? Hell yes. Will anyone deny that there are attractive women who have sold their bodies into a marriage for the man’s money or position? Look at Ann Heche, who probably ‘went lesbian’ solely to help her career for cryin’ out loud.<BR/><BR/>Simply put, I have to quote <I> O’ Brother, Where Art Thou?</I>; I’m with you fellers.<BR/><BR/>I don’t believe either side is wrong, or right. I think each side is viewing a large, complex issue through a very narrow lens and developing conclusions based on a small sample of the information.An Edjamikated Redneckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881476802902468670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-71445093944835111912009-03-21T04:44:00.000-07:002009-03-21T04:44:00.000-07:00It's more accurate to say "Most women/men I KNOW ...It's more accurate to say <BR/><BR/>"Most women/men I KNOW OF blah blah blah." <BR/><BR/>Or <BR/><BR/>"It's been my experience that women/men blah blah blah."<BR/><BR/>No one knows most people. We are limited to those we have met directly, or indirectly through acquaintances.<BR/><BR/>"If those are the women that they know, they need to get to know better women."<BR/><BR/>Couldn't have said it better.Carolinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11577584676839171856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-85214443353385058002009-03-20T21:29:00.000-07:002009-03-20T21:29:00.000-07:00A guy who tries building a relationship on kind wo...<I>A guy who tries building a relationship on kind words and deeds and going dutch on everything isn't going to get any. The relationship is probably going to die early on, too.</I><BR/><BR/>I've got a ring and twenty-one years that contradict this claim.Peter Hohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06916196998855947137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-88752447980100453582009-03-20T19:04:00.000-07:002009-03-20T19:04:00.000-07:00"Most women are prostitutes sometimes"?Yeah, and p...<I>"Most women are prostitutes sometimes"?</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, and pardon some of us women for taking offense to that. Rev, you can use or not use the names that exist in society to coincide with the definition "trades sex for material goods," but either way it's (1) incorrect and (2) offensive.<BR/><BR/>On most other topics, you're one of my favorite commenters. On this topic, you've managed to piss me off (something that's hard to do) because you generally seem very reasonable, and yet here you are accusing most all women of trading sex for possessions. WTF? No. Sorry. That's certainly the reality for certain women, but most women? Not even.<BR/><BR/>Or is this a regional thing...? :)Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-39654022631853520432009-03-20T17:00:00.000-07:002009-03-20T17:00:00.000-07:00Oh.So your problem is one of nomenclature?What if ...Oh.<BR/><BR/>So your problem is one of nomenclature?<BR/><BR/>What if I had summarized this as "Most women are prostitutes sometimes"?blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-66248747451755172122009-03-20T16:57:00.000-07:002009-03-20T16:57:00.000-07:00Euphemisms? Euphemisms for what, Rev?Euphemisms fo...<I>Euphemisms? Euphemisms for what, Rev?</I><BR/><BR/>Euphemisms for trading sex for material goods.<BR/><BR/>Yes, I know that you insist on calling anyone who does this "a whore". That's your problem, not mine. I explained to you that I don't think the word "whore" applies unless it is a professional activity, and even then is an insulting term.<BR/><BR/>Most (not all) women trade sex for material possessions at one time or another. Most (not all) men trade material possessions for sex at one time or another. If you want to take the juvenile approach of saying "women are whores, men are johns" then go ahead and do so. But don't try to pass that off as my position, because that isn't what I said. That's like if I said that Barack Obama was a lazy and unintelligent black guy with no respect for the law and you told people I called him a "nigger".Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-70523579739556055062009-03-20T16:39:00.000-07:002009-03-20T16:39:00.000-07:00Rev,OK, here are your exact words, "Most women tra...Rev,<BR/><BR/>OK, here are your exact words, "Most women trade sex for material goods at one time or another."<BR/><BR/>OK: "all women are whores" isn't exactly precise, "all women are whores at one time or another" is <I>exactly</I> what you're saying, and even further supported by your next sentence:<BR/><BR/>"It is just that few do it without the euphemisms that surround an intimate relationship."<BR/><BR/>Euphemisms? Euphemisms for what, Rev? <BR/><BR/>Who's not being honest, here?blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-9811158251899284182009-03-20T16:31:00.000-07:002009-03-20T16:31:00.000-07:00Blake,You said "all women are whores". Freeman sai...Blake,<BR/><BR/>You said "all women are whores". Freeman said "all women are whores". I didn't. Neither did Sofa. That's just how you decided to restate my words, because it suited your purposes to make me sound like a misogynist.<BR/><BR/>So your whining about how nobody says "men are johns" is dishonest. The reason I didn't say "all men are johns" is that I was unwilling to follow your and Freeman's apparently-preferred approach of stating my position in the most insulting way possible.<BR/><BR/>So go fuck yourself if you can't be honest, ok?Revenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11374515200055384226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-24495521998730573952009-03-20T16:17:00.000-07:002009-03-20T16:17:00.000-07:00Jeeez, I am glad I missed all this girly stuff.Whe...Jeeez, I am glad I missed all this girly stuff.<BR/><BR/>When I saw it was about whores I passed right over it.Trooper Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978703998566102194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-67155030989857228192009-03-20T07:07:00.000-07:002009-03-20T07:07:00.000-07:00Excellent, chickenlittle!Excellent, chickenlittle!Darcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05642443487136176511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-90671774618529041962009-03-20T00:09:00.000-07:002009-03-20T00:09:00.000-07:00If love is sought as a child seeks gifts, from giv...<I> If love is sought as a child seeks gifts, from giving to getting the value then shifts</I>chickelithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773887469972534979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-32770409430033539362009-03-19T18:17:00.000-07:002009-03-19T18:17:00.000-07:00LOL, knox.But William, while I understand the poin...LOL, knox.<BR/><BR/>But William, while I understand the point you are making, and it is one of the same points Blake made, your view is not what most of us were having trouble with.<BR/><BR/>Gifts given as an expression of affection and not in anticipation of any sort of reward sexually are wonderful...no matter the value.Darcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05642443487136176511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-52535578478573940922009-03-19T17:32:00.000-07:002009-03-19T17:32:00.000-07:00In matters of love and relationships, I always tur...In matters of love and relationships, I always turn to the wisdom of ... Al Capone. <BR/><BR/>WTFknoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231876226573540476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-50003467686736516902009-03-19T17:05:00.000-07:002009-03-19T17:05:00.000-07:00Al Capone, who knew about these things, said that ...Al Capone, who knew about these things, said that you can get more with a kind word and a diamond necklace than just a kind word....A fair minded woman would also factor in the possibility that an extravagant gift is perhaps an expression of extravagant affection. Such gifts are given not in contemplation of sex but in gratitude for kindness.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07837540030934495651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-86436719855699625092009-03-18T21:08:00.000-07:002009-03-18T21:08:00.000-07:00Unanimously creeped out. :)And thanks, knox.Unanimously creeped out. :)<BR/><BR/>And thanks, knox.Darcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05642443487136176511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-83538674562774595242009-03-18T20:56:00.000-07:002009-03-18T20:56:00.000-07:00wouldn't you be creeped out?Yup here too.No woman ...<I>wouldn't you be creeped out?</I><BR/><BR/>Yup here too.<BR/><BR/><I>No woman will ever doubt the sincerity of a man's love and commitment if he gifts her with a diamond necklace previously owned by the last Empress of Russia.</I><BR/><BR/>Oh really? I think I would question that the man knew me at all as that gift would speak to complete ignorance about what I like and appreciate.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-20850373181307556202009-03-18T20:49:00.000-07:002009-03-18T20:49:00.000-07:00wouldn't you be creeped out?Yup.<I>wouldn't you be creeped out?</I><BR/><BR/>Yup.knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231876226573540476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-57672518172471831942009-03-18T20:48:00.000-07:002009-03-18T20:48:00.000-07:00I'm sorry I overlooked this thread at Althouse. Gr...I'm sorry I overlooked this thread at Althouse. Great comments over there, Freeman, Darcy, and Blake.<BR/><BR/>This:<BR/><BR/><I>A guy who tries building a relationship on kind words and deeds and going dutch on everything isn't going to get any. The relationship is probably going to die early on, too.</I><BR/><BR/>...is patent bullshit. Sorry, but when men--or women--complain about this sort of thing, my immediate thought is "you really don't know how to pick 'em." (Of course, it's difficult to respond that way without getting personal.) I never dated a guy who acted like he could get in my pants after dinner and a movie, flowers, or some other outlay of cash.<BR/><BR/>This: <I>the poor young couple starting out with nothing but love</I> basically describes my husband and me to a T! We BOTH considered an engagement ring a foolish indulgence in our circumstances, and our honeymoon (on a budget!) our wedding gift to each other.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I understand why all of it made Darcy sad; it made me sad too. They reduced women--and men--down to their lowest possible motivations, and then tried to act like "what's the big deal, we're just being honest here."knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13231876226573540476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-83629639083842886962009-03-18T20:45:00.000-07:002009-03-18T20:45:00.000-07:00No woman will ever doubt the sincerity of a man's ...No woman will ever doubt the sincerity of a man's love and commitment if he gifts her with a diamond necklace previously owned by the last Empress of Russia.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07837540030934495651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-22688523485236465792009-03-18T20:39:00.000-07:002009-03-18T20:39:00.000-07:00Be honest with me, ladies: If you had the vaguest ...Be honest with me, ladies: If you had the vaguest inkling that you were the recipient of a gift, and that gift was a trade, as Rev has it, for sex, wouldn't you be creeped out?<BR/><BR/>I would be! On either side. It'd make me call my whole relationship into question. One. Does. Not. Barter. With. Sex.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05430444326700437630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-68533106359800972422009-03-18T20:08:00.000-07:002009-03-18T20:08:00.000-07:00Thanks, Blake. Great thoughts, you guys.Thanks, Blake. <BR/><BR/>Great thoughts, you guys.Darcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05642443487136176511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-2204570372891003512009-03-18T19:57:00.000-07:002009-03-18T19:57:00.000-07:00I agree with Freeman, that thread was awful. Spea...I agree with Freeman, that thread was awful. Speaking for myself, I've never felt "strongly sex driven" in my relationships. The ones I enjoyed least tended to overemphasize the sexual side, and my favorites were multidimensional, often in ways that have surprised me. (usually in a good way!) I fall in love with the whole package, not just the pretty wrapping. I just have taken that for granted for so long I don't even think about it anymore.Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12327563444009264980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7268985416439660021.post-37642864767814376772009-03-18T16:15:00.000-07:002009-03-18T16:15:00.000-07:00Your comment laid it out.What a pathetic thread. ...Your comment laid it out.<BR/><BR/>What a pathetic thread. If those are the women that they know, they need to get to know better women. I have a lot of friends. I don't have a single friend into expensive baubles. And yet, there's a lot of sex going on... <BR/><BR/>Also, by their rationale, if relationships are mere exchanges of sex for material goods, why is it that every beautiful woman isn't married to a rich man and vice versa? I know numerous gorgeous women married to men of extremely limited means and also numerous wealthy men married to women of very average sex appeal. Of course you can find people who only want material goods or who only want to get laid, but such people are not the norm and certainly not to be emulated. <BR/><BR/>The moral bankruptcy of the outlook on display in that thread is indicative of the moral bankruptcy of materialism.Freeman Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16202310075717963694noreply@blogger.com